I think it's about time we started working on the particulars of the Antarean Dynamic Magic Language. I have three out of four of the pyramid faces done (which I will upload here when I get a chance), with the fourth on its way. For those of you who'd like to go reread the original FoI Forum thread, it's (broken). For everyone else who just wants a recap of the intro, here it is as I had written it prior:

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So, we've supposedly got the Antareans which know all this cool magic controlling language, right? And we have the Proteans which guard the magic empowering ore, right? So where do the two interact, and how so? Here's a proposal (a proposal, mind you) on how magic is implemented.

Casting a spell draws upon three different semantic clauses that the user will have to specify: source, action, and target. The Antarean language is built to facilitate this need with keywords that are often used to reference those needed three clauses. Some important notes on each three of those...

Source

The source of magic can be found in specific ore. Before a user can cast magic, they must call upon a specific source of magic energy. The simplest way to do that is to have the source physically at your disposal. For example, the source clause might be "The ore in my hand," or "The ore sitting two wingslengths in front of me." (Why not? Antareans might measure things in wingslengths...)

It's often not very handy to be carrying around a whole bunch of ore, of course. However, a user can cast a concatenate spell over any amount of ore, and they must also provide a reference name at concatenation. The reference name alone then becomes a substitute for calling upon the source. Thus if you named a large pile of ore "bagel," your source clause could simply be "bagel." Only the user who concatenated the source is allowed to use it remotely in this fashion (however, a source can be re-concatenated to effectively add another person to the source's "user list"?this would be what Brooke has to do as her rite journey thing).

Action

Now that we've summoned the energy, what are we going to do with it? This clause might be "cause tornado," or "launch ball of fire," or whatever. Note that each clause has an inherent element implied. Tornado is essentially a "violent column of air." I already mentioned a "ball of fire." You could also have a "pool of water," or a "wall of earth." What about, say, a "storm of ice?" I think ice would actually fall between water and earth. Think about our elements and the four corresponding states of matter: earth-solid, water-liquid, air-gas, fire-plasma. The action clause basically creates any combination of those concepts and does something with it.

Target

Where is my magic going? This functions similarly to the source clause. You basically need to identify your target, such as "the ogre I'm touching," or "ten wingslengths directly in front of me." I suppose there also would be some little-known way of targeting a person or thing from a remote location.

Levels of Spells/The Ore

Some of what I've gone over (especially the action clause) is specific to elemental spells. While these are the simplest to cast, they aren't the only ones. There are other categories as well, and the higher the level, the more ore you need to draw from.

Ore isn't so much a resource like, say, gasoline fuel. Rather, it's a base of energy that has a certain capacity, kind of like RAM. Certain spells, even within the same level, need more ore to be effective. For instance, I'd say it's easiest to cast spells that manipulate elements of fluid consistency (water and air), while it's more difficult to control more extreme elements (earth and fire).

Above the simple elemental spells would be more advanced spells that affect all the elements at once, and then some. This would include things such as healing, psi abilities, and the Proteans' morph ability.

Above the advanced spells is a class of omnipotent magic. You need a heckuvalotta ore to cast these (thus Kydran's desire to mine it). The rez spell, and a de-exist spell (if we use it) would fall under this category.

To use the Protean morph spell as an example:

The source clause would be the reference name each Protean used when they went to the Labyrinth Grove to initiate their magic powers at age 16 (which has become a cultural ritual). The action clause contains something to the effect of "bestow physical characteristics of [some living thing]" where the Protean user must study [some living thing] to be able to employ a meaningful reference name in the action clause. Finally, Proteans only know one target clause: "The living thing that I'm touching."

Thus, Brooke's spell in Part II might look like: "From the labyrinth grove ore, bestow physical characteristics of a skunk upon the living thing that I'm touching." You might find that a bit wordy, but Antarean language has specific words for each clause, so that the spell ends up being only 3-5 words. Also note that Brooke must first study what "a skunk" is before she can use it as a meaningful reference name in the action clause.

There are probably many more things that I could get into, but first, let me know what you think. Is there something that escaped you completely? Something that's a little fuzzy? Something you would change?

All the images from the Snitz forum 404 out. I only have three pyramids for some reason:

(Click on the thumbnail to get the full picture.)

EDIT: Pic links removed, broken

You can't cast the strongest magic early on because the characters do not know the words. As a matter of fact, the main characters do not actually ever learn the language itself. They just memorize individual spells... and possibly figure out little tricks to produce different spells, but only if it's part of the story. The player can't just type the stuff in, though... the characters have to learn spells legitemately.

hmm yeah perhaps she could be the primary healer type. I mean we have REZ devices why not ones that simply heal? It's the same type of magic isn't it? So then Rheya could build better TW machines as the game progresses and one of those would be a modified REZ device or something like that to be used for healing. It gets stronger naturally when there is more ore around, but maybe Rheya could learn to amplify the effects as the game goes along. (build a better mousetrap) That would save us from having to find which elements healing would come from.

P.s. -

Do we really need 80-some-odd spells anyway? ;)

Fantasy settings use fire as an element because, way back in the dark ages, it was thought to be an element. As I understand it, the element of fire wasn't heat per say, but rather the property of combustability. When you burned something, you were actually releasing the fire which was already held within it. Melting, which also involves heat, had nothing to do with fire... it had more to do with earth (hardness) and water (liquid)... perhaps they thought of it as converting the earth in metal into water... and boiling would be converting water into air... freezing is converting water back into earth... something like that.

So, heat, in fact, is a completely separate concept... I guess... Well, again, since it's all fantasy, we can interpret it however we want.

Anyway, the point is, it's not supposed to be realistic. If we were being realistic, there would be no magic. The four elements are traditional for fantasy settings, and I think they work very well.

EDIT: Mystik: I disagree. This topic belongs here in the story. We aren't discussing the actual gameplay mechanics of magic. We are discussing how magic works in this world. We are building the setting, which is part of the story. When we start talking about how the player uses magic in battle, it should be under gameplay.

As you can see by reading my ideas regarding the elements and their sources not all fantasy magic is derived from direct manipulation of nature. (the archangel types I mentioned actually are the elements, not simple living symbols of them. So they are the world in the physical sense. Let me put it this way: The upper plane in my fantasy world is the source of the physical plane. The physical plane is merely a reflection of the upper plane so in the upper plane there are the actual elements and the physical merely a shadow of those elements. So to manipulate those elements one must call on the upper plane and not a force that is inherent in the physical. See what I mean? These archangel types are literally the building blocks of the physical universe. What makes it reflect as it does, the mirror, is the Good, or the actual being of Good, not simply the symbol for it? Get what I mean here? It's all based on Greek philosophy and some of my own.)

There is no science in fantasy. That is what bothered me about FF7 and the technology based ones. It doesn't fit the pattern. Fantasy relies on the above type of ideas not a set of physical, observable laws. So Seimova's concept of fire not being an element is flawed because it relies on the scientific pattern.

We can make magic be whatever we want it to be. Tolkien didn't explain where magic came from (directly), yet his wizards, the some lines of the three races, and the Dark Lord and his minions use it. (The source: Ultimately the Valar who created the world under guidance. [their power came from the guide. A god figure whose name I can't remember.] Melkor was one of these, and he was the original enemy "of whom Sauron was but a servant". Melkor became corrupt and was called Morgoth. He created the Balrogs and the original Orcs, and such as bastardized elves and so on...)

So our idea of the four elements coming from direct manipulation of a magic language and ore is a valid one. ( so is my idea of living archangel types as the real elements) We don't need to be limited by science here. There is none. Even TW is technology based on magic. Like the Magitech of FF6. Not really science. More alchemy that chemistry.

Ah yes! Illuvatar! That's the one lol.

One thing struck me about whay you said, Seimova.

If magic is supernatural then can supercede natural laws. That is in the definition of super-natural. (literally above nature) So then it really doesn't have to mesh with nature. Think of any other supernatural event. The descriptions of them defy nature and logic.