Fate of Io
Eumonetics: Comments?
2003/06/26 06:52:14 PDT by Temporal [manager]
[Temporal's avatar]

I managed to work "E = mc2" into my little introduction to eumonics. Hehe.

I also worked in some ideas which have not been discussed which I would like comments on. First of all, there is the thing about eumonics draining directly from HP. I mentioned this idea to Dev and he seemed to like it. I like it because it is different, and it makes you think more carefully about your actions. Of course, this has a significant effect on healing spells. Since energy is conserved, a healing spell cannot heal the target more than it hurts the caster. However, healing spells are still useful if the energy for them is drawn from eumonite.

The second interesting point is the ability to draw on others' eumonic energy if they are willing, and the dangers that go with it. I thought this might work well with the whole Kydran battle at Tarikun (I think it was at Tarikun... can't remember... it's the battle that happens long before the start of the story)... he orders his soldiers to allow him to draw their energy for an attack, and he ends up killing many of them accidentally. Or something.


2003/06/26 14:17:33 PDT by mystik3eb [0/43]
[mystik3eb's avatar]

Ok...guess we have to have alot of potions handy for our guys to use, then.

Also, "eumonic energy" is tacky, instead of calling it "eumonic energy", I'd like to have a specific name for it, since it is pretty much "magic". So I'll start a thread on that, and see where it goes.

Sweet job otherwise, really defines the individuality of our game.

2003/06/26 19:27:55 PDT by Dev [manager]
[Dev's avatar]

Some pretty darn good stuff there, Temp. I think you covered all the bases too, in terms of story concepts that are required.

I dunno about renaming "eumonic energy." It doesn't bug me that much, and I only imagine it being used in the initial explanatory dialogue. Course, to be picky, I coined the term "eumonetics" which is just slightly different from "eumonics." Does that make a difference to anyone? I could really care less I suppose.

2003/06/27 00:51:17 PDT by Siemova [0/24]
Edited at 2003/06/27 01:14:38 PDT
[Siemova's avatar]

Dunno what others think, Dev, but I prefer "eumonetics". It sounds more like a scientific term, whereas "eumonics" sounds like a music-related term. Heh.

I'm not enraptured by the "eumontetic abilities drain health on use" idea at first blush, but perhaps either you or Temp could flesh out the idea a bit so we'd have something more specific to consider? I'll hold back from developing firm opinions until then. :P

EDIT: I can see how that might be true for Antareans, since (if this idea is still valid) they have traces of the ore in their bodies/bones/whatever. Drawing on their own bodies to use this power could have adverse effects, ranging from slight nausea and disorientation to unconsciousness or even death. But how would we justify applying the same effects to Proteans et al who rely on external sources of eumonite? Perhaps, being more intimately connected with the ore, Antareans make better use of it but are more susceptible to its negative effects, whereas Proteans, working through a detached source, find it harder to manipulate but experience much less discomfort...?

2003/06/27 06:34:41 PDT by Temporal [manager]
[Temporal's avatar]

Actually, the idea of having Antareans with ore in their body was dropped a long time ago. We decided that all living things have some natural supply of the energy within themselves. This was covered in the Eumonics node which I just wrote. Did you read it?

As for "eumonics" vs. "eumonetics"... yes, I agree the latter sounds better. Sorry, I screwed that up. Will change it shortly...

2005/06/03 10:19:43 PDT by braynstorm [0/9]

I just wanted to mention that I read the little treatise on eumonetics. technically, wouldn't eumonite be a capacitor?

Because batteries produce electrical charge through chemical reactions, and capacitors store electrical energy and then release it when it is introduced into a circuit.

Sorry. just being nitpicky, and I just came from my Physics final that was was like 90% electricity and magnitism...so I'm all hyped up on physics lingo. XP

Added at 2005/06/03 11:05:45 PDT

oh...and since I'm in the mood. Is the eumonetics branch of physics basically electricity and magnetism with a magical twist to it?

Basically, what I'm asking is: will eumonetic energy follow the same principals as electric energy...just...in the different field?

As well...how does it "re-arrange" matter? Does it simply take other forms of matter and energy and transfer them? or something else?

2005/06/03 11:34:07 PDT by Temporal [manager]
[Temporal's avatar]

No, eumonetics is nothing like electricity. It does not flow through wires. It does not create electromagnetic fields. It does not involve positive or negative charges. Etc.

Quote from braynstorm:

technically, wouldn't eumonite be a capacitor?

Eumonite is neither like a battery nor a capacitor, since eumonetics are not like electricity. But, comparing it to a battery is easiest to understand, particularly for those who don't know what a capacitor is.

Quote from braynstorm:

how does it "re-arrange" matter? Does it simply take other forms of matter and energy and transfer them? or something else?

How? We don't really specify how it happens. If you want, think of it as converting all the matter to pure energy, then converting it back to matter again in an arbitrary configuration.

2005/06/03 11:48:01 PDT by braynstorm [0/9]

ahh. mkay. ^_^ thanks

2005/06/03 18:46:47 PDT by braynstorm [0/9]

oooh! I just had another thought...Would we have certain types of attacks (I'm thinking magic attacks. I wouldn't have put it here otherwise.) that can attack more than one person? In which case, there would have to be some splitting of the damage. I believe that Kirchoff's junction rule might work for that. (again...physics on the brain.)

For those of you who DIDN'T take a physics final within the past 24 hours, or didn't at all, let me explain.

Kirchoff's junction rule says that the amount of charge (or in this case Eumonetic energy) is constant. and when a current splits off into more than one path, if you add the seperate currents up, it equals the total current before the split. I think this could work for attacking multiple enemies. It would mean that more people would be attacked, but less damage to each enemy.

Also, I was thinking about the elemental circle thingy and the amount of damage done relative to one's element.

I noticed that as you go around the circle, the amount of damage you do varies as a sinusoid with the equation: y=AcosB(x+C)+D (the standard formula for a cosine curve.)
If your spot on the curve was at 0 degrees, and you let B=1, C=0, and A=D, then you get a curve that has a maximum value at 0 degrees and then at 90 and 270 degrees (a right angle from your spot) you get only half the damage and at 180 degrees there is no damage done.

The best part about this is, as you level up, A and D also increase, therefore increasing the maximum damage one can do.

I knew this Trig would come in handy some day. XD

2005/06/03 20:21:12 PDT by Temporal [manager]
[Temporal's avatar]

Hrm. I never learned the name of Kirchoff's junction rule in physics because, well... the rule is intuitively obvious. The current has to go somewhere.

In the case of eumonetics, it depends on how the damage is being done. If you are using some sort of direct "Do damage to target X" attack, then, obviously, it will take twice the energy to do the damage to two targets rather than one. But, such techniques would also be terribly boring.

Imagine instead a technique which ignites some flammable material near some enemies. How much damage does this do? Well, in this case it's not the eumonetic energy converting directly to damage. It's the fire -- powered by the flammable material -- doing the damage. This doesn't take much eumonetic energy at all (just a spark) to do a lot more damage. More importantly, this would be a whole lot more fun for the player, because it involves some thought.

Regarding your trigonometry: The correct equation is A*cos(x + pi). There is no D. Channeling fire energy into a creature with a fire affinity will heal that creature. Fire energy does the most damage to creatures with a water affinity.

Of course, that only applies for channeling energy directly. Once again, indirect attacks are a little different. Even a person with a fire affinity is going to take some damage when engulfed in flame, though perhaps not as much as someone with a water affinity would. So, it's possible for indirect fire-based eumonetic techniques to do damage to anyone. Again, it depends on the technique.

2005/06/05 16:05:45 PDT by braynstorm [0/9]
Quote from Temporal:

Regarding your trigonometry: The correct equation is A*cos(x + pi). There is no D. Channeling fire energy into a creature with a fire affinity will heal that creature. Fire energy does the most damage to creatures with a water affinity.

Now that I look back, I mis-spoke. I'm sorry. Your equation is right for what I said.

I was thinking about the potential to do damage based on the CASTER'S element. so that if a fire affinity cast a water spell 180 degrees away, it would do nothing. And then this would apply to direct attacks only then. Although, I really don't understand how that would change even if the attack was indirect.

Thanks for helping me to catch my misnomer! ^_^

2005/06/05 16:15:35 PDT by Dev [manager]
[Dev's avatar]

Also remember that when we're talking about eumonetic techniques (and I think we've discussed this before), the affinity of the technique gives some hint as to what it does. You might be thinking about this from the perspective of doing battle, but I think that the majority of our techniques actually won't involve any sort of direct attack. Fire techniques are naturally destructive because of their element. Water techniques are naturally healing and supportive of life. Wind techniques deal with motion and time, while earth techniques can alter shape, form, and function.

These aren't definite, but I think you get the idea. Instead of thinking about the damage the eumonetic does, think about their function. As we have their affinities right now, Dell is our primary supporting eumonetic, with water and wind techniques. Rheya is the primary offensive eumonetic, with wind and fire. Brooke might become critical in problem-solving, with her earth techniques. But this leads into the techniques specifically, and that's something we've only even started to talk about, especially since the broader gameplay design has only been outlined. (And progress on that discussion is occuring here.)

2005/06/15 11:34:18 PDT by Stix [0/49]
[Stix's avatar]

If I thought we wouldn't get majorly ripped off, I would say we could go to a game company with this and see what they thought of it.

But seriously, I like this. I really loved Turn-Based RPG's because they're kind of relaxing, and the puzzles outside of the fighting was fun too..but you can integrate puzzles AND fighting and that's what gets interesting. When the day comes where we'll start actually programming (I am not a programmer. i suck at math like you wouldn't believe), then we'll start seeing how that all works out.

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